What’s an Award Worth? (ConCarolinas 2015 Writing Panel Notes)

Hi everyone! Just like last year, I spent the end of May and beginning of June at ConCarolinas, followed by a writing retreat. I had a great time at the con as usual, and then at the retreat I feel like I had a chance to deepen my craft. (That's what happens when you get a group of like-minded folks together for honest, earnest critiquing. And okay, the lake house we rented had a hot tub, so that didn't hurt.) After a spot of beta-reading for my awesome CP, I'm ready to get back to my work.

I'm actually going to keep my promise (to myself) to get on the older notes (relatively) first, because I have a lot of stuff I'd like to share from Emerald City and even (eep) a few from the last SIWC. But this topic felt important.

Please note: I know this is a sensitive subject. Yes, I have my opinions. Let's leave it at that. As with every other occasion, I'm just sharing my notes on the panel. That said, I do think that there were a few positive messages to take away from this, especially moving forward.

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What’s an Award Worth?

Wendy S. Delmater, Gray Rinehart, Edmund R. Schubert, John Hartness, John Scalzi

Moderator: Misty Massey

There are a lot of different awards attached to genre fiction (Hugo, Nebulas, Stoker, etc). What’s an award worth to working writers?

WD: Abyss & Apex (which she edits) got honourable mentions, recommended reading lists, best ofs, etc.

GR: Hugo nomination for novelette.

ES: Also was nominated, and IGMS they tried but they were able to sidestep that, and they’ve won a few awards. Was once nominated for an Edgar. Years’ best anthologies, honourable mentions, etc.

JS: Hugo, Locus, Romantic Times,  Geffin (Israel), Kurzlazfitz (Germany), Scion (Japan), nominated for Nebula, Norton, award in Spain, Audie, and others.

MM: Mad Kestrel was nominated for SC young adult book award.

JH: Recenlty won best horror for 2014, was nominated for 2013, and one story from Big Bad 2 got honorable mention, and was once nominated for Pushcart prize for poetry. And Charlotte writers for poetry.

So what are they worth to you as writing professionals?

JS: Depends on the award, the context, and the time. Winning the Campbell award was significant because it was the one that put him on the map as a writer. It was useful to him because it differentiated him from other new writers out that year. Hugo was useful because with it comes outward prestige (known outside of the genre). Example: helped expediate his contract with Hollywood for a contract. The rest of the awards have been nice to have on the shelf, but in terms of moving the needle have been the Campbell and the Hugo.

GR: The awards being differentiators: awards that an author can point to for even eing a finalist or a semifinalist can becomes a differentiator because he can expect more and get more because the ahtuor has already proben themselves in that field.

WD: Does the same for short fiction. Especially new writers. They help develop new writers, and grow careers. They have people whose careers they helped start. To help, they’ve put them in for awards, and they can use that as a cover letter credit to take it to the next level. Having cover letter credits is a big deal. An award means that people notice you, but it also boosts a writer’s confidence.

ES: Challenges is that the writers grow up to move on to writing novels and are so busy writing novels that you need to bring in a new wave. Like a graduating class.

WS: Award winners get preferential reading.

JS: With the accolade comes a certain expectation. Which can be great for them because their next book gets reviewed. And that expectation doesn’t go away. It continues to be brought up. An expectation reconfiguration. The awards for later books are really awards for previous work done. But to win an award is to have criticism both positive nad negative. Which can have an effect on your

ES: MRK: The leading indicator on whether you’re likely to win a hugo is whether or not you’ve won a hugo.

JS: Neil Gaiman turned down an award for 2006 because he sincerely believed it had stopped being about the work and started being about Neil. Passed it on.

ES: It’s not always about the best players, it’s about the most popular players, being rewarded for work that came before. Not a problem, but a reality.

JS: Yes. Example: Redshirts. Is it his best? The year he was nominated, he had been nominated three times before and had never won. Aside from the quality of the book, there was everything that goes on with the aspect of the award; everyone knew he’d been nominated for before, and it was also a good year to be nominated. It’s not only about where you are in your career, but also about the year and the playing field, and you have to be okay with that. Otherwise you get bitter and defensive.

JH: And no one gave Redshirts an award for best SF novel of all time. It’s a snapshot. A moment of “this is the opinion of this voting block for this year”.

JS: When he won the Locus award, one thing he said was “I wish it had been given to Ian Banks”. Because the award represented the body of his works that year. But again, it’s a matter of what the playing field is in a given year and who people are voting for. When you get nominated, you have to be aware of all the dynamics, and it helps you to have someone whispering in your ear, “Thou art mortal”.

WD: It’s worth different things on different levels. Recognition. It pushes people to the next level.

JH: Example: Hopes that an award will push him from attending pro to guest status at DragonCon.

WD: It gets you out of the slush pile, onto the radar, and hopefully into a better situation, career-wise.

GR: It means that he (in charge of the slush pile at BAEN) won’t be the first to look at the book. (and in 7 yrs, so far only 2 of 6200 submissions have actually made it from the slush pile to the shelves). Some manuscripts have been in consideration for a long time because there may be a chance that they say yes. But then, the first book he did get out of the slush pile has gone on to be Nebula-nominated. Writers of the Future award winners have gone to the top, too.

WD: The numbers are important because having some small award will get you notice. Publishes 25 out of 2000 submissions a year.

GR: Same thing all over the place, even with venture capitalists.

Did you find the award gave you a confidene boost in terms of the work and how you presented yourself?

JH: A confidence boost in his work, and in the way he presents. Doesn’t often mention to other writers that he’s won an award because he doesn’t want to be tacky, but looks at it as a tool when talking to someone outside of the industry, or someone who doesn’t know him, or . When it’s effective. (BK 4 won an Epic award). But it gives him a personal confidence boost that people he didn’t know liked it enough to give him an award.

JS: Confidence not so much, but looks at the awards dispassionately: as tools, as shorthand used strategically to introduce yourself to other folks. With his unusual career, he didn’t have to struggle to get published. Name recognition and awareness in the genre hasn’t really been a problem. He used to be a newspaper columnist, so he came in with a built-in audience. That said, he uses those things strategically. When trying to get attention of people outside of the genre. When Tor was looking at his first book, aware that he came with that audience. When he won the hugo, the main feeling he had was “Yes!” but it was a relief to have won that and to be done with that. He’s already won, so he doesn’t have to think about this anymore. The sense of palpable relief. The awards come with their own dynamics nad pressures and they can loom artificially large in the minds of writers. Hard to explain to some writers on the other side of the fence. It’s great, but then you go home and now there’s the expectation that the next book better be great. He got the deal last week because he has a track record for sales, not because of the award. Terry Pratchett even turned a nomination down in 2005 because it did nothing for him.

WD: Connie Willis  was like an early lifetime achievement award. Not so much about the book. And that’s okay.

ES: Yes, but if you say, “Who gives a shit?”, then why are there wars?

JS: He felt relief when he won the Hugo, because he’d been nominated 3 times before, and went through the pressure, and there’s not necessarily a finite number of times you’ll be nominated, but fashions change, tastes change, and this time that he won it was ripe. Eventually that window closes.

JH: Award winners from the 70s are very different from award winners in the 80s and 90s, and Redshirts might not have even been published in an earlier decade because it was a style that wouldn’t have been published back then.

JS: If he hadn’t won, there’s a chance he might have been upset. It’s a mark of distinction and acceptance in the community. Desire makes us do lots of things, positively and negatively. A lot of the wars come down to desire. “Why aren’t I and the things I love properly appreciated?” And the one thing he agrees with is that there is nothing in any type of science fiction or fantasy that should not be considered for awards, or good writing.

Awards are not what the field is about. They are a signatory, a snapshot of what the field is, but that snapshot is incomplete. There’s so much going on outside of that snapshot that it’s hard for someone not in the window or the snapshot that this isn’t necessarily a criticism of what they love. Some people can handle that, and some feel differently. You cannot tell people that the way they feel is invalid. They are who they are. But remind people that there’s more to life. There’s sales. And fans. People who say “That speaks to me, and you have changed my life by writing that thing.” Focus on those moments, not just on the award, as validation. He can’t say that what any of the Puppies feel is invalid.

WD: And you’ve been reasonable.

JS: No, I’ve been snarky as shit.

JH: But that’s what we refer to as a given circumstance.

JS: That’s why you’ll never hear me say anything bad about the people who are nominated. The question is not whether they can or should be nominated; it’s a question of whether in this particular instance  was the reason they got onto the ballot without controversy. This year, no.

JH: People want to write what they have written. Wants a Stoker so he can get a better deal, and if he gets those things without the statue, okay, fine, but if he gets the statue that’s even better.

About the Sad and Rabid Puppies and the Hugo awards …

WD: She was there on the inside of that. 15 of the 18 nominees were Rabid Puppies.

GR: Was also a Puppies nomination. After much thought, he has arrived at the metaphor that he was offered a ticket on an airplane, said he’d take that ride, and then the plane got hijacked. And the plane landed and took off again, and there’s people on the plane who want it to crash, and people on the ground who want to shoot it down, and he just wants to get off.

JS: Is reading everything. Will rank his reading appropriately. Regardless of the dynamics, there are people on the ballot this year who could and should be on the ballot. People who got on the plane and were surpreised what happened from there. Ultimately, for the same reason he doesn’t go out of his way to criticize other writers’ writing, he’s going to give the writers the same consideration he hopes others would give to his writing.

GR: Other people voting, they’re very wound up over this, and not sure about voting. Lately, he’s told people that if the situation has poisoned it for them, then don’t read his story. Reading should be a pleasure. If there’s some outside force making it displeasurable, then go find something that will give you pleasure.

ES: Decided to get out because they didn’t nominate him for an award because of his work; they were making a political statement. Felt like there was too much going on.

JS: The one thing he thinks about regarding this whole matter is that we do get wrapped up in awards. Yes, it’s the tail that wags the dog, but regardless, it has made us as a community think, what are these awards about, and why do they matter? The one silver lining is that it’s led to a new discussion, appreciation and understanding of what awards are, can be, and should be, and he cannot argue that this was not a discussion that was not necessary for science fiction and fantasy. It wasn’t the way he’d have had it, but at least now it’s happening.

Myths about the Writing Life (ConCarolinas 2014 Writing Panel Notes)

Myths About the Writing Life

Tamsin L. Silver, Misty Massey, Claudette Marco, Jim Bernheimer, A.J. Hartley, Roy Mauritsen, James R. Tuck

Moderator: Faith Hunter

Myths of the writer’s life (read aloud)

1. My solid gold hummer doesn’t spit money

2. Royalty checks are big

3. People always want to write your books

4. No revisions

5. No day job

6. You need a big publisher

7. Once you write in one genre you can only write in that genre

8. All you need is an agent

9. A book deal equals fame

10. You need to write chapters in linear sequence

11. A great-selling novel equals an automatic movie deal

12. Just about getting your first book out, and it’s all gravy after book 1

13. Publicity and marketing people at your publishers ensure your book gets read

14. Book sales are counted in hundreds of thousands

Myth: Publicity and marketing people at your publisher ensure your book gets read.

AJ: People assume that if you’re with a major publisher that marketing budgets are divided equally between authors. The person with the higher advance gets the higher budget. Unless you’re one of a very small percentage within that house, there is virtually no publicity or support.

TS: Her publisher told her promotion was her job, and didn’t help after a year, so she pulled her book.

RM: Went for a smaller press because he wanted more control.

MM: Not only did the PR people not do anything, they weren’t clear on what she should do.

FH: PR is the lowest position in publishing. New authors are often taken care of by inexperienced PR staff. Best to get a PR firm to help you learn. Online ads and referrals are best. If you don’t know how to do your own PR then you lose out.

JB: (mostly self published) Marketing time will eat into your writing time if you’re not careful. Be prepared to part with money to get noticed.

CM: (self published) Successful at conventions. Blog tours didn’t help much. Being at conventions, especially speaking on panels, helped her make connections.

AJ: Twitter blew up when Richard Armitage read his Hamlet book. Made it hard to keep up, have a dayjob, and write.

Myth: You need a big publisher to sell your work.

TS: Self-published, at book 5, and someone who works at Vampire Freaks.com loved her books and asked her to write a new online vampire show, so began work on Skye of the Damned, learned how to produce a show, and as  a result the cross promotion led to more book sales. Don’t be afraid of what you don’t know. If you don’t know it, you can learn it.

FH: The learning curve never stops.

MM: Releasing a book of short stories on her own featuring Mad Kestrel because there has been a long gap in releasing books 1 and 2.

CM: All the marketing is on you if you are self-published. Used CreateSpace as publishing venue so that she could put more money into editing, cover art, etc.

JB: You don’t even need the brick and mortar stores, either. Self-publishing – Create Space, Lightning Source. Create Space is more print on demand. Lightning Source will send you the bill for returned books put in brick and mortar stores.

RM: Brick and mortar stores are fighting, competing with other books. Prefers to take books to convention regardless of small press or large. Works in graphic design and now designs covers for other writers. Likes having more control with a smaller press.

FH: Brick and mortar stores are going away is what we’re hearing. But?

AJ: There’s a myth going around that b and m stores are going away. It’s hard to make a real living without a big pub and books in physical stores. Doesn’t have the skills or time for publicity and marketing his books, so he wants the big press to promote him. It comes down to what you want to achieve. Grocery money? Being out there, sharing stories? Self pub. Consistently 50K a year or more, very difficult to do that as a self-published author. Traditional publishing is not dying. Some of those who self pub should not be putting their work out. The initial myth that you need a traditional pub to get your book out is not true. The new myth that we can also load up to Amazon and make a fortune is also untrue.

FH: The myth that you can quit your dayjob is also untrue. She just quit her dayjob, decades in. Hit bestseller list, hired a PR firm, and the firm let her down, didn’t get much attention from publisher until they noticed her books stayed on the extended list. Hired her own PR firm.

AJ: The NYT list is calculated based on numbers of copies shipped from warehouses to stores, while the USA Today list is based on number of sales. Also, Booklist and many others have their own lists.

FH: Making the bestseller list did not translate to more PR when she hit the bestseller list the first time, but then eventually did.

Audience Question: What’s more important, print and e-book sales or hardcover?

FH: Mass markets don’t make much per book. Print and e-book sales

JB: Has been self-publishing, and the most he’s ever made in one year is 22K. Nice supplemental money is great, but don’t quit your dayjob.

FH: But until you hit a bestseller list, you’ll be lucky to make even 20K in traditional publishing. The first book selling for a million to a pub is very rare.

JT: There’s no money in publishing. This isn’t a get-rich-quick scheme. Don’t do this for the money, do it for yourself.

AJ: Those who make the most money are hybrids, selling out of print backlist via self-publishing, and also selling traditional work.

FH: Publishers aren’t letting go of the print rights like they used to. An agent helps to keep it. If you go for a traditional press, have an agent.

JT: If you don’t have an agent, demand things out of your contract. Have a lawyer look after it. A contract lawyer can help too.

Myth: Once you get that first book published, you’re set.

FH: This is more for the traditionally-published folk, but how hard is it if you haven’t been traditionally published to keep publishing?

CM: It is difficult, and conventions take money, but does get the satisfaction of putting book out there and interest in writing to work. Tried to find an agent, and some were interested, but eventually it didn’t work out. Liked finding her own editor, connecting that with story, finding own cover artist, etc. Not much money, but she has the satisfaction of living out her dream.

FH: Even for traditionally published it can take a lot. Hotel rooms at a con, meals, flights, etc, are not typically comped.

MM: Eight years after Mad Kestrel, finally got invited to a con that comped a hotel room.

RM: Being able to share a story, create something, that’s the satisfying aspect for him.

FH: We all do this because we love to do this.

TS: I can’t not write. As an artist, this is extremely fulfilling. Remembers that she is not writing for anyone but herself.  It’s always better to write for you, not for the people around her

FH: It sucks having to write something just to pay the bills.

AJ: there is a downside to quitting your dayjob. You become a slave to the market. There’s a freedom to knowing that the sales of your next novel don’t determine whether you get to keep your house.

MM: Most people do not have the discipline to treat it as a job in your own home. Most people are writing in their home and when you’re in your home the brain is telling you to do all the things, the chores, the laundry, and Facebook, etc. You have to be super disciplined to not have a day job and write in your home.

Me: Three times I’ve taken a week off just to focus on writing, and three times the week has been filled.

FH: There are no benefits for those who quit their dayjobs.

Myth: You’ll be able to write at conventions.

JT: I’m too busy drinking with friends.

TS: I go out to eat and drink with friends.

JB: Maybe a bit but cons are an opportunity pit.

AJ: Used to bring his laptop. *snort*

RM: Cons are an opportunity to not write, to make connections.

TS: It’s important to talk about writing, so you have so much more energy when you get back to that

FH: The networking that happens at cons happens at the bar. You can do this even as a recovering alcoholic.

Audience Question: How do you write at home without social media?

FH: Rewards herself: she can only check FB after she finishes every page, if she wants.

JT: No internet in his office. Researches things later. “Research” turns into time spent on FB.

CM: Sets goals, takes breaks.

TS: Easy to sit and write.

Audience Question: Advice on finding cover artist if you’ve self-publised a book?

RM: You can find a lot of great artists through Deviant Art.

JT: If you buy a sketch from a cover artist, you can’t use it for a book cover. There’s a big contract involved first.

CM: Freelance.com.

Finding Your Voice (ConCarolinas 2013 Writing Panel Notes)

Finding Your Voice: A Magical Words Panel
David B. Coe/D.B. Jackson, Faith Hunter, Misty Massey
MagicalWords.net is a website for readers and writers of fantasy that started in January 2008. Faith Hunter, David B. Coe (now also writing as D.B. Jackson), and Misty Massey all met at a convention and clicked, and the concept was born. Over the years they have brought in other writers and related folks. They have many regulars and guests. Enjoy another discussion with the founding members!

Voice: The most amorphous, the least easy to define, and yet probably the most necessary part of any kind of writing. Especially fantasy.

Voice is the distinctive tone, mood, and style that makes any particular piece of writing sound unique.

Voice in the dictionary: You will not find any reference to literary voice. This is a term that gets used in literary circles but doesn’t get used outside of that.

The term gets used in different ways by different people even within writing circles.


Types of Voice

Voice works on different levels, different kinds of voice. There are 3 major types:

Stylistic voice – Personal style and genre influences. Authorial voice (voice of author – can tell different betwen Faulkner and Hemingway – voice of author stands apart.); genre voice (an epic fantasy by Dbc and an urban fantasy by dbc red differently. Different subgenres. Supposed to be diff critters.)

Ambient voice – The mood of the world you’ve created and the book you’re writing. The Jane Yellowrock books read different from the Thorn St. Croix books. Partly because the worlds are different. The narratives are different. The characters are different.

Character voice – Particularly with 1 Point of View character. Character voice is the voice of your narrator, the way they express themselves or tell their story. If the POV skips around, you want different voice between each character, too.

FH: They blend so much, they’re hard to keep separate. Views voice because she writes first person, the voice types blend. Finding the break betwen things is harder to do in first person.

DBC: You as an author have a voice. Someone picking up your book recognizes it as your book.


Which books have influenced your voice?

MM: After reading The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers, which was rich and powerful, in-depth and thrilling, she wanted to write something that made somebody feel the way that book made her feel. Also Michael Moorcock. Dark, bitter, angry, cold quest fantasy. She wrote the book she wanted to write. Not by following a commercial trend.

DBC: Steven R. Donaldson’s Thomas Covenant books. Having read Tolkien it never occurred to him that a character could be dark, bitter, horrible, and still be worth rooting for. And then he read Guy Gavriel Kay and wanted to write like that. When we start, we have nothing to go on besides what we’ve read. But our own voices emerge that are our own unique compendiums of our taste and the writing styles of the books we’ve read. Then when he wrote Thieftaker, he started writing as D.B. Jackson, which was different from his work as David B. Coe. Thieftaker is historical urban fantasy, not epic fantasy. So he went for a different style.

MM: When writing Mad Kestrel, set at sea, she tried to use language that was rolling and moving, like something on a ship. Now she's writing something else set in Nebraska, and so is going for long and distant.

Audience comment: It felt that night and day in Thieftaker were written differently. There was a different voice at night.


Audience question: As you’re writing Chapter 1 of a new series, how much time do you need to invest in the new voice?

DBC: Starts a book, especially a first book in a new series, and finds upon completing a 400 page novel that the start needs to be rewritten the most. He takes time to find characters as he’s writing. Forstalls it by worldbuilding and writing short stories set in that universe. It's important to write stuff that doesn’t matter. Play with the world through short fiction is a fabulous way to start developing that ambience, that mood, for the larger work you’re going to write.

FH: Starts with first page and first line. Once she knows the character’s name and where she wants to go she’ll go back and work on it again and the voice is there.

MM: Doesn’t start with a short story. Loves playing with a world and getting it out in 20pgs or less.

DBC: Thieftaker was originally an alternate-world (epic) fantasy. Although it’s set in Colonial Boston, it has an otherworldly quality.


Audience question: How do you inject life in to something structurally sound that lacks it?

DBC: It helps to have great editors and beta readers. He put the book away because he wasn’t ready to make it the book he wanted it to be. Then he thought about how he could punch it up. How do you breathe life into something like this? He added action, showed the character in action. Made one change to first chapter and it was like a row of dominoes, and that broke him out of the stuff he thought that couldn’t be fixed. It changed his mindset.

Faith: She has to write the story she needed to write. Presented something her editor rejected in a different voice. It was a substantially different book. She was able to take what she wanted and what editor wanted and make a much better story.


Audience question: Character voice – what do you do to differentiate between different characters? Especially when they're from the same culture?

FH: Characters are not just one thing. Voice should be dependent on what your characters have gone through. Where do they come from, what are their histories, what have they lived through?

DBC: Point of view characters: You’re in their heads. It’s not just about dialects or language, you have to get into emotion. Ethan Kaille is broken, and has a history of being broken. Characters are a product of who they are and where they’ve been. E.g. Schlomo the Kosher Vampire.


Audience comment: Faith has a great example of the different voices between Jane Yellowrock and Beast.

Faith: Beast develops vocabulary as she grows. And Jane recognizes her primitivity.

DBC: Jane in Book 6 is not the same as Jane in Book 1. Ethan in Book 4 is different from Ethan in Book 1.

MM: Kestrel, too. She doesn’t have the luxury of the immaturity she had as quartermaster when she becomes captain in Book 2.


DBC to MM: How did you prepare Kestrel as a character before writing the first book? What influenced you?

MM: Kestrel is a street orphan, and Misty knows her origins and background. She comes from the streets and having to survive on her own from such a young age. It hardened her, made her more streetwise and clever than average kid. She knows how to handle people. How to not be afraid of people. How to assess situations and fights, and whether or not she can get out of them. BUT Misty focused on communicating character rather than communicating the background details.


DBC to FH: You didn’t do much prep work with Jane Yellowrock, but that works with story because Jane has no memory.
                                     `+
FH: Yes, and it was a process of discovery. She couldn’t do prep work; if she had, she’d have shared it too early. She’s discovering Jane as she goes. As Jane discovers herself.

DBC: Ethan spends his time as a thieftaker recovering everything he’s lost.


Audience question: What are the benefits of Pantsing versus Outlining?

MM: Pantsing is really really hard. She had to learn how to outline, but it’s so much simpler to have a map. Not necessarily every single detail, but a basic roadmap.

DBC: Do you mean that characters take over, go where we don’t expect? (He re-outlines as he goes along because characters will surprise us with things we can’t anticipate. That doesn’t mean you should avoid having that narrative roadmap. Knowing where the next plot point is gives the characters more freedom.

FH: Writing an outline in the character’s voice told her what her weaknesses were and how to fix it. She solved a plot problem that worked for the character, and fixed it, and made it work for the character’s voice.

The First Five Pages (ConCarolinas 2013 Writing Panel Notes)

 
Hey everyone. How has your April been? Mine has been absolutely insane.

Don Rocko and I were both part of a wonderful wedding between two of our close friends. (Not so unexpected, but still intense.) We didn't quite get much chance to take a breather after ECCC. Add bachelor/ette parties, holidays and requisite feasting into the mix, and it was busy, to say the least. Busy but fun.

I also sadly had to say goodbye to my maternal grandmother this month. To call it "not fun" balances out the narrative of the preceding paragraph, but doesn't really do the situation justice. Sometimes my penchant for euphemisms, though an excellent skill at key times that call for tact, instead leads to me doing an injustice to myself. That's about all I have the energy to say right now.

So if that was all tl;dr for people, the long and the short of it is that I've been very busy, and the result is that I've got a decent collection of notes I haven't had a chance to post, so my goal for May (and the days leading up to it) will be to share as much as I can. One of the great things about this is that it's good for me, too. When editing these to share here, I remind myself of what I learned in the first place. Now, let's get started with an exceptionally useful subject, taught by some of my favourite writers: a manuscript's beginning.

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The First Five Pages: A Magical Words Panel 
Faith Hunter Misty Massey, David B. Coe

MagicalWords.net is a website for readers and writers of fantasy that started in January 2008. Faith Hunter, David B. Coe, and Misty Massey all met at a convention and clicked, and the concept was born. Over the years they have brought in other writers and related folks. They have many regulars and guests. Enjoy this discussion with the founding members!

The topic, in a nutshell: If you are unpublished and you want to become traditionally published in the traditional market, your pages have to be better than anyone else’s first five. Here’s some great tips on how to do so.

Getting Started

FH: Established authors can get by without a huge hook because they are known quantities. This has to be tough. If you’re already published you can get by with more than a new author.

DBC: Disagrees, because he thinks that editors understand your first 5 pages aren’t going to be as polished, clean, etc. as a writer who’s experienced. They want to see that you have potential, an understanding of how to write, and that you’re capable of taking a good idea and turning it into something that will last over the entire arc of a book. They might not see the same quality because they see the potential. Yes, your first five pages should be kickass.

FH: Editors are looking for a reason to stop reading, to throw out the manuscript, because they have a huge stack on their desk.

MM: Even for short stories. 14 stories were chosen out of 200+ submissions for The Big Bad anthology.

FH: The professional editor at a big house gets hundreds and hundreds. FH and DBC were lucky slush pile pickups.

Every manuscript needs a good beginning, character development, good conflict, resolution of conflict.

Your opening needs to contain a bait and hook. Something that will prove pivotal later in the book. Also: engaging characters, immediacy, conflict, strong active word use. And voice.

Focus on the event you see on the first page. Don’t open with an island and twelve monkeys unless they need to be there in the book. What the book’s about. Whatever’s there on the opening page is what you want to carry through in the rest of the book.

MM: Mad Kestrel opens on a ship in a storm, with another ship bearing down on it that suddenly vanishes.
-    Have an event, use a writing style that sets the tone, sets the genre, and hints at conflict
-    Immediacy: it has to be important
-    Time limit: e.g. the ship that’s bearing down on the main character’s ship.

DBC: He believes book begins where it needs to begin. At the moment when the events leading to the climax start to matter. It sets up the things that the book is about. The opening needs conflict, voice, all the above, but there are as many ways to get to those elements as there are writers trying to write a story.

Example: Thieftaker opens without a body. It begins with the main character, Ethan, chasing a thief. (This sets up that he’s a thieftaker, the original Private Investigator.) Ethan can smell smoke because there are riots happening in the city (the Stamp Act riots), confrontation with the thief leads to his use of magic, and the kid he arrests assumes he’s working for his rival. Lone wolf using magic. The mystery doesn’t begin until the third chapter. DBC likens the main character to Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid: there are two opening scenes, one for Robert Redford’s character, and one with Butch Cassidy. Ten minutes into the movie, we’re rooting for the characters already. He wants his readers to know Ethan isn’t someone to be taken lightly.

FH: Research is key. Lots of research on pirates and dance. David has a PhD in history.
“because with a PhD in History you can get an exciting job writing Fantasy novels!”

FH: There are several basic types of opening – the narrative, the dialogue, and the action. Old ones include journal entries, someone waking up, news article, dream. We want those first five pages to be unique and exciting. She’s opened a story with a character waking up, but not in her first novel.

Where do you go to research your first 5 pages?

MM: Read everything. What works and what doesn’t. Learn what other people have done and why it worked or didn’t work. If not, make notes and figure out why it didn’t work. Remember why they worked and why they didn’t. Avoid tropes: something that has been done to death. Not quite a cliché, tropes are done to death but keep being done. E.g. the magic baby trope – conceived, born, grows to adulthood in a week. Has been done and overdone but is still done because someone likes to read that.

DBC: Another example: the young person who doesn’t know they’re destined for greatness. Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, King Arthur. Not done to death, but narrative touchstones that we come to again and again.

MM: It becomes a cliché when you misuse the trope, because you don’t understand the trope. E.g. if you use it “because everyone else did it”. For example, using the reasoning “Tolkien did it” isn’t enough to understand why it was used.

FH: Find your own story, your own opening, something that weary editor cannot put down.

DBC: Agrees with MM. Read, read, read. Fionavar Tapestry. Ender’s Game.

FH: It’s about reading analytically. When you learn how to write, you’re often self-study. Figured out that since she couldn’t go to college, in order to make a living she’d learn how to write herself. Taught herself how to write with coloured pencils in books she’d read and marked great pieces of dialogue. Wrote what was good about something.  Or why something didn’t work. Learned to read analytically. Read blockbusters, things that resonate with the world. Even if it doesn’t resonate with you. Find what resonates with you and understand it. There is a trend for faster openings these days.

FH: Conflict is where so or something is struggling with something and the outcome is in doubt. Man vs. Nature, Man, himself. Introduce with some form of conflict. Doesn’t have to be  the main conflict, but it’s got to be something to do with your book.

Authors who write great hooks: Rachel Aaron, Jim Butcher.

What about internal conflict?

FH: I has a lot to do with voice. In Skinwalker, Jane Yellowrock walks into a new city, into the business of a woman whose type she usually kills.

MM: Kestel’s internal conflict is a secret she has to keep. Something that would change her life completely if the rest of the world found out. There are moments when she missteps/misspeaks, and she’s terrified of that getting out. Don’t just have one type of conflict for your character. Not just one. There has to be other conflict, internal and external, different ones that you encounter as you go along.

DBC: The secret to making it work: start off by knowing your character as well as you can, the emotional basis of their personalities. E.g. Ethan was a prisoner, and now he’s getting his life back. Know your characters well enough that you understand what sets them off. In the narrative, put the things that make them crazy, sets them off, in their path. This makes for compelling, interesting characters.

FH: It’s different from journalism, not the 5W’s and an H. Introduce with the tension of all these questions to be asked when the reader starts reading, but answer them throughout. This makes for a compelling story. You have to answer those questions by the story’s last word.

Audience comment: the First 5 pages are for the reader to decide whether they’ll keep reading.

FH: The opening has to be the best work you can do. It has to be the right opening for that book.

Audience comment: if things aren’t happening quickly enough, you’ve either started too early or too late.

DBC: The start has to be where the narrative that leads to your climax begins. Knowing what events set in motion the story that drives the narrative for the next X-hundred pages.

MM: Avoid the infodump (spilling everything in the first 5 pages).

FH: Start where it first makes sense. For Jane Yellowrock, there’s tension building up to meeting Katie (the vampire seeking to hire her).

MM: “Start the moment where things begin to go wrong.” —Marion Zimmer Bradley

FH: Sometimes it’s luck. Sometimes the editor will say, “Unfortunately, we bought a book just like this.”

DBC: Write the book you want to write. Don’t try to anticipate the market.

Audience question: How much backstory’s acceptable in first 5 pages?

FH: Not wise for a first novel. Introduced in the second third of the book. Unless you’re Stephen King, but you’re not. Set the backstory in the second third of the book. Lasagne analogy: don’t throw the ground beef into one corner of the pot and the onion and noodles in the other – set it instead to layers. Chopped into small pieces. Give it as needed for the story. Should evolve with the cahr. Answering those questions is what the book’s about.

Audience question: Instead of backstory, what about hinting at backstory?

FH/DBC: There’s nothing wrong with that. Immediacy’s good. Little hints are awesome.

Audience question: How often does it happen that the first five pages need to be rewritten?

Everyone: ALL THE TIME.

Faith: Mostly through revisions. Rarely ever does she have to tear it up and rewrite completely.

MM: Don’t look at first 5 pages and keep tweaking. Only tweak because the book needs it. Don’t fiddle. Be aware of why you’re looking at your first five pages and want to fix it, don’t just fiddle.

FH: Do you have a last great bit of advice to writers before they send their work to an editor?

MM: Move onto the next thing. Don’t sit and wait. Publishing is the slowest business. You’re used to sending in and getting response right away. You’re wasting our own time if you do. Work on something else.

DBC: When he finishes a manuscript he puts it away 4-6 weeks then goes back to revise. He tries to create as much distance between editing and writing experience. That helps him catch as many flaws in the book as possible, both before and after beta readers.

The Unfair Folk (ConCarolinas 2013 Writing Panel Notes)

I'm sure you don't need to hear about  my crazy month of parties, traveling, and computer issues. (Though I narrowly avoided sending my laptop off for needless repairs when I realized that the fix had partly to do with all the accumulated cat hair. Which we will not speak of right now. Seriously.) And above all, woven through that were more revisions. Revisions that lead to hour-long conversations about the nature of my main character's magic, the flaw with middle books in some fantasy trilogies, and the plausibility of stairs on ships. Among other insanities. So I'll spare you the details, except to say that barring final feedback from my critique partner, I'm ready to get back to querying. Yay!

But I will say this: the process of doing an intense revision with a critique partner who knows how to kick butt has been *awesome*. I learned a lot in the process. I paid attention to whether or not my main character was driving the story. I remembered to factor in the advice about making sure that at least three of the senses are engaged to enhance description. And I kept an eye on the flow. What I'm saying is, I feel really good about this.

Meanwhile, please enjoy more notes (at last, as usual, sighhhhh). I feel no shame. But guilt? Um ... OH HEY LOOK AT THE PRETTY NOTES ABOUT FAERIES!


The Un-Fair Folk
Emily Leverett, Misty Massey Kalayna Price, Janine K Spendlove
Moderator: James Maxey
JM: How did we get from Oberon to Tinkerbell?

EL: It’s changed with time. In the medieval version of Orpheus’ tale, his wife gets kidnapped by faeries; Orpheus is a king who dresses as a minstrel and faeries are evil, creepy. Then a few hundred years later, we get Shakespeare with Oberon and Titania who aren’t very nice either and mess things up. Then in the Victorian era, it’s twee faerie things; then they became cute and fluffy much later on with Disney and the like.

Regardless, if you want to meet fairies: fall asleep by a river under a tree at noon.

MM: For a very long time, people believed that the faeries are really there. Some people still do. For so long we’ve believed they’re real, so in story we’ve needed to make them more friendy, less harmful. It was an attempt to make them less terrifying as the modern world came in slowly and our understanding grew.

EL: The rise of childhood as an actual thing may have contributed. Maybe the creation of children’s stories led to the sanitization of previously-darker tales.

KP: There’s lots of research on Victorian era faeries; she (KP) has researched faeries elsewhere. Often there are different names for the fae. There’s the story of humans being caught in the endless dance, and a darker story with vampire mythology that as they dance, the beautiful women slowly cut them apart and drain all their blood. There are lots of dark creatures in the older mythologies, but they by the time you get to Victorian folklore, some were bad luck but became good luck. Oral tradition has so many variations.

EL: Stories got attached to morals, and become moral tales.

JM: Neil Gaiman reclaimed faeries-as-evil: presents them as beautiful, interesting creatures in a variety of shapes and form, with an element of the uncanny and terrifying underneath, if you cross a line. Say the wrong thing, turn the wrong direction, eat the wrong food, and you’ll pay the price.

Disney and J.M. Barrie aren’t to blame. Faeries represented the ignorance of what is making nature tick. Suddenly we didn’t have to attribute strange noises in the ground, in the air, to supernatural forces. With a scientific world view , faeries stopped having the sinister aspects.

Because science has become so rational, Arthur Conan Doyle believed that two girls had taken pictures with faeries. Even today in Iceland, you have to have people familiar with the fae to survey the land and confirm it’s okay to build a road. They even build little churches for the faeries to come and be converted.

JM: So why does the belief persist?

EL: Because it makes the world more interesting. It’s a boring world without faith or belief. Some of it is desperation. One of the darker sides of faerie beliefs was the concept of changelings. They had instances of that in renaissance and medieval history. Probably it was a child with Down Syndrome. It’s okay to kill a changeling, not a child. Bad things, ugly things happen, and it was a way to cope. Even today we want a way to cope.

KP: Faeries were also used to explain things like SIDS.

MM: Ancient beliefs are very hard to let go of. It’s easier sometimes to still say, “it could be faeries and not science” – we can’t always see the science. And part of us will always go, “What if I’m wrong about not believing in this?” Often it was used as an excuse – the faeries did it.

JM: These were myths from the past that people believed. Future people might think that we actually believed in Santa because we have a lot of Santa stuff  around. And what would they think if they read our fiction?

EM/KP: [Amusing, too-fast-to-log discussion about Santa being raised by elves]

JM: What’s difference between elf, faerie, brownie?

KP: From a writer’s standpoint, anything

MM: Brownies are tiny; fae, human sized, elves are not necessarily fae

EL: Elves were popularized by Tolkien. Lots of his stuff about elves comes from Norse Myth.

KP: And lots of fiction based on elves has modeled them after Tolkien.

JM: From a purely fantasy perspective: One of the common aspects of faerie myths is that they were the original inhabitants of land that went into hiding when mankind took over. How much of this is scientific memory of more advanced cultures coming in and taking over from the tribes, the aboriginal inhabitants? We’re now advanced enough to recognize they’re people, but what if we once saw aboriginals in body paint and thought they were supernatural beings? Made them into myths? It’s a way to explain it. The same thing is true with the tree folk. Did we impose powers and abilities on them?

JM: Ancient ruins: There’s still something haunting about lost worlds, something out of place, the separation of time but being in the same space. Often true of the faerie world: time shifts.

EL: The Ruin (poem) about a roman bath, a former civilization – the poem talks as if those people had magic, and what is lost is a true loss.

Audience question: How much of the beliefs about the Fae came from the old myths of Baccus, Odin, etc?

KP: very good chance, especially since myths were revived in the renaissance. Most of these stories came from the oral tradition, which is hard to track.

EL: The environment affects the mythology – e.g. Japan has lots of water ghosts, not desert ghosts

JM: This panel is about elves and faeries in lit – what reading would you recommend?

JS:  Loved C.S. Lewis’ dryads, naiads, etc. in the Chronicles of Narnia. Gateway in childhood.

KP: Katharine Mary Briggs wriote several good books on specific stories and an encyclopedia on this subject – presents different types of fae; also recommends reading Child’s ballads – stuff he collected. Also: for classic tales – Thomas Knightley’s study of romance in the Victorian era

MM: Very impressed by the YA: Wicked Lovely by Melissa Marr. Her faeries are terrifying critters. (also gorgeous cover art). Also, Lady Cottingly’s pressed fairy book. (a parody)

JM: Gaiman’s Sandman dips into faerie realms, astonishing stuff; also, the movie Pan’s Labrynth (horrificly violent, about the brutality of war).

EL: Hellboy 2 plays with faeries, too. Faerie magic appears very  differently in medieval and renaissance lit. Seconds gaiman. (esp the midsummer night’s dream story). LKH’s faeries are fun (though very non traditional). Medieval Arthurian legends deal with magic, and so does Chaucer – lots of medieval romance (quest narratives). Beowulf: Grendel, Cain, and Fae. Also, critical book: The Faeries at the Bottom of the Garden.

Aud: With the Victorian stuff, Andrew Lang’s colour fairie books?

MM: Current fairie books are drawing from older literature, but making it their own, too.

JS: Yes, whatever works for the story.

Audience: What about Spencer’s Faerie Queene?

EL: Stay away from that. He’s awesome but the story is about flattering Queen Elizabeth 1 and it’s a Christian allegory.

Audience: Teen section of library – the Faerie Path series. Talks about faeries good and bad clashing.

MM: In some mythologies, the summer court and winter court do clash a lot.

KP: Also Seely versus unseely. Different types depending on where you go in the world and what decade you’re in. Oral traditions change faster.

Aud: More writers are using more original tradition – is that a backlash against Disney?

JS: No, but it is a realization growing up that not all faeries are Tinkerbell (not that she was very nice if you read the book) – more of a discovery of everything else that faeries could be. We're leaning more about faerie lore, people are rediscovering it, and we want to play in that world.

MM: Writers want to do something different, too. There's nothing really new out there, so we take what we have and reinterpret in our own way to *make* it new and fresh.

JM: Once you go back and start researching, you find that almost everything has a very dark origin.

KP: John Harntess’ Black Knight Chronicles – deals with Faeries in Book 2.

EL: Yes, some of it is a bit backlash, but also, in urban fantasy especially, things have generally gotten darker. The economy has crashed, 9/11, and other stuff. We were headed that way darker, artistically, as a way of dealing. Hartness' book is comic. We may be back on the swing towards more lighthearted soon, as times change once more.

Bad Boys, Bad Boys (ConCarolinas 2012 Notes)

Hi everyone! Look who's going for record of Longest Notes Delay? *innocent whistle*

Eh, I've said my piece. To say the least, I've been busy. Here, let's look at the less-than-golden boys of fiction, and what makes them tick.

* * *

Bad Boys, Bad Boys

James R. Tuck, Faith Hunter, Kalayna Price, Jim S. Bernheimer, William Hatfield, Dahlia Rose Moderator: Misty Massey

Spike, Mal Reynolds, Han Solo, Repairman Jack, Jack Sparrow, Jareth the goblin king, the man with no name – we like bad boys. But what constitutes a bad boy?
JT: The guy willing to do what it takes regardless of the consequences.
FH: And women like him.
JT: The roughness tended with a good heart.
FH: Even with Spike, there’s something good that’s under that evil exterior. The guy who gets the job done, whatever the job may be. Not ready to settle down.
KP: Can be bad guy, villain, love interest...
JB: A scoundrel, a rogue, stays true to himself, doesn’t spin on a dime – The journey from bad boy to something other than bad boy is not overnight, and has setbacks, if you’re going to redeem him.
WH: Has a too good to be true boy who’s going evil over the course of his series
KP: The bad boy doesn’t necessarily need to be redeemed. E.g. Jack Reacher.
DR: The heroine has to feel she can fix/redeem him. She has to feel part of the solution, not the problem.
KP: The bad boy doesn’t have to have a love interest. But often they’ve had someone they’ve lost or who was killed to push them into the bad boy role.

What’s the difference between a bad boy and a villain?
DR: The bad boy is the guy with a conscience. The villain will do it and say "F it, I’m done". Even if the villain has a love interest, he’s still just looking out for himself.
WH: The bad guys are going for personal gain and that’s it. The bad boy has a conscience but he’s able to successfully bury it most of the time, but every so often Pandora’s box opens.
JB: John Cusak – Grosse Point Blank – he’s an assassin,and no one believes him until he’s actually caught doing it. Minnie Driver saw him as somewhat fixable.  Dan Ackroyd is just after a paycheck.
KP: The bad boy is sexy. Doesn’t mean he’ll get the girl, but he can attract her.
MM: Han Solo – attitude mixed with sexiness.
FH: Fun to write bad boys who cross the line sometimes into villain and back again. Also, bad boys who are led to test the limits of their success.
JT: The difference is cruelty for cruelty’s sake (villain). The bad boy has a nobility streak, however rough. Even if he’s the meanest person in the book there’s still something deep inside. Evil is a matter of intent.

Aud: The bad boy still has his own code of honour, reason for doing something bad
KP: Even villains still must have a code, however messed up it is.

Is there a difference between the bad boy and the antihero?
MM: Antihero is  more damaged, has a lot more to lose or has already lost what there is to lose. Mal and Han still have somewhere to go; Batman has lost everything.
JB: The antihero doesn’t see himself as a villain or antihero. He's doing things for their own reasons and he believes those reasons to be just.

Can a villain backslide to antihero, and backslide to bad boy? E.g. Farscape – sounds like a  bad writing decision. It has to be logical to the reader. Characters have to progress in a logical fashion.
FH: Still have to make the characters behave.
JT: That’s a cycle of redemption. Must have a catalyst for that, a character to help them redeem themselves.

Bad boys vs. Bad girls?
DR: Writes strong women who can match a bad boy. (pass)
WH: Has not written a bad boy. (pass)
JB: (pass)
KP: We have strong women, we have bad women, we have heroines, but not really many bad girls.
MM: It’s a cultural issue. Bad boys = more violence; Bad girls = more sex.

Audience question: How many tormented male characters have been built on the backs of broken women? (eg. Murdered wife, etc)
Bad boys – recklessness, wild; military men have generally chosen their path, not necessarily reckless wild etc.
Military – badass, but not bad boys. Very family-oriented. Usually working towards going home to their families. They want to see their children and save their family. They get home and the curtain falls away and they become family men.

Who is your favorite bad boy?
JT: Mal Reynolds. Nathan Fillion is charming.
FH: Jack Reacher.
MM: Clint Eastwood – The man with no name.
KP: Jareth the Goblin King.
JB: CT Westcott – Will T. Bucko
WH: The road warrior. But Vlad Totosh.
DR: Eric in TrueBlood

Comics: Uncorruptable and Irredeemable – Mark Wade
Watchmen – all of them are bad boys or villains (except for Night Owl)
Lilith St. Crow – Jill Kismet (bad girl)

Women can be badass, too, not just a dude with breasts.

For all of us who are writers – we need more kickass women, we need to change the culture, change the paradigm.

What is the bad boy trope?
Sexy, attitude, reckless, with nobility/their own code.
JB: These days, we could have a bad boy metrosexual.

The Rise of the Heroine (ConCarolinas 2012 Writing Panel Notes)

Writing strong female characters can be a challenge, and that was reflected in the lively discussion that took place at this panel. Maybe it’s because Western society, while theoretically equal, is rife with double standards and mixed messages and no, being a girl still isn’t the same as being a boy. The diverse range of women’s issues out there means that these days, the female characters we write don’t go read without eliciting opinion. Here’s the topics and questions that came up at this panel.

NB: Three heroines (Anita Blake, Bella Swan, and Katniss Everdeen) drew a lot of discussion in this panel, and there were no clear-cut answers. Since each of those characters could be the topic of hours of discussion on their own, I’m going to focus on the other points that arose.

The Rise of the Heroine

Authors: Faith Hunter, Misty Massey, William Hatfield, Eliza Gayle, Diana Bastine

(Moderator: Betty Cross)

Question: How many kinds of heroines are there?

Answer: How many kinds of women are there? As many types of heroines as there are women.

Examples of Heroine Types
- Woman warrior
- The Moral Teacher
- The heroine in spite of herself, who carries on in the face of a shocking encounter
- Someone who’s a heroine who rises to the occasion and does what needs to be done (e.g. Luna Lovegood)
- A raging granny (e.g. the woman who survived losing her family to yellow fever, the potato famine, lost her business in the Chicago fire, and then organized the coal miners)
- The reluctant heroine: the one who fights because she has to. The reluctant heroine is one who doesn’t have every resource available, she just has to use what’s at hand to save the world. (e.g. Rosa Parks – she never intended to be the beginning of a movement, but she got sick of the way things were and rose to the occasion)
- The stealth heroine – rises to the occasion as needed, not just contributing, but guiding (without taking over).
- This list is not exhaustive.

The Message
 - Every character sends a message to readers, from Bella Swan to Katniss Everdeen.
- When bodice-rippers were okay, we were teaching that it’s okay to be abused as long as the man falls in love with you.
- Are we raising a generation of women where they think being stalked is sexy? Eg. Edward, Angel, Spike
- Regardless of the message you send, it’s important to be aware of what you’re trying to say.

Common Issues
 - Women are central to a lot of relationship entanglements.
- Avoid making your heroine super, she has to do things wrong, make mistakes.
- Make sure to tone down the hero. If the male romantic lead is too strong, people will think he’s stronger than she is, so it can help to make the heroine look even stronger.
- Also, tone down the heroine so that they’re not super-woman.
- Avoid making your heroine super. She has to do things wrong, make mistakes.

Question: One common character criticism is, “She’s not strong, she’s a bitch.” How do you avoid this criticism? Not every strong woman has to be a bitch. But if you give them flaws they’re suddenly weak. How do you walk that fine line? 
 - Keep the character human. E.g. To increase likeability, find and show weaknesses in the character that demonstrate that she’s human and has a heart.
- This really is a fine line. The heroine can’t be too hard. She can’t be too bitchy or too weak. A good editor can really help.

Examples of great strong heroines
Books:
- The Heinlein Juvies had strong, smart heroines
- Eve Dallas (JD Robb)
- Stephanie Plum (Janet Evanovich)
- Cyllan from Louise Cooper’s Time Master trilogy (Intiate, Outcast, Master)
- Cat Murphy from Jim Butcher’s Harry Dresden series 
Television:
- Once Upon a Time (Fantasy): the premise is that they’ve taken fairytale characters and made them function in the real world – and it’s the women rule the game. All the women have different personalities/stakes.
- Babylon 5 (Sci-Fi): Delenn, who transforms herself to help forge peace between the Minbari and humanity